Add-ons: Degree of Difficulty

Question

I'm liking the new Badges, and the extra challenges of getting the Add-Ons, but I have noticed that some are so much harder than others to achieve.

In particular, I would like to get the Leap Day add-on for The Diverse Cacher, but that requires me to find a minimum of 11 different cache types this Saturday (or in 4 years time etc etc).

I think that's a pretty tall order to achieve on a very specific day. I could say it's pretty much impossible for me without flying down to Christchurch (I live in New Zealand) as we only have 1 Webcam cache in total in NZ.

Obviously I realise that getting the add-ons shouldn't be a walk in the park, but at the old Diamond level of 10 different types it would have at least been possible for me.

Could consideration be given to lowering the requirement from Diamond to Sapphire (or the old Diamond level) just for this particular Add-On? Or is consistency considered more important than giving us cachers a realistic target to aim for?

Thanks for your consideration.

Comments

I like Twig's idea (especially as to get 11 types may require a mega on Feb 29), however I think this results in a cludgy solution where some are some value, some are others. Unless it becomes standard that all addons that currently require diamond level of finds to achieve (as in Twig's example), are reduced the same way, eg to Sapphire level.

I would certainly NOT want to see one reduced while others are not - there needs to be some sort of consistency across badges.

On the other hand, while having a Feb29 option on diverse is technically feasible, I also have no problems with it being a practical impossibility.

---

Depending on where you live, this is a tough one indeed (but that's the case for many of the Diamond badges as well). For people living in or near Germany, there is a Mega next Saturday (with the new Locationless cache as well), and several Cito's and Events in the wider area too. Since I am going to that Mega, I will try for 13 types that day. Without all these events it would be nearly impossible indeed however...

---

As usual, it depends on what other caches you have available. Way back, when I first found BadgeGen and wanted a diamond Diverse badge (then 10 types), I dug up a virtual and a webcam that I hadn't logged (and, wonder of wonders, no one else of the three people I did this with had either) and then saw a CITO held in the same direction. I quickly published a breakfast event for the same day in a suitable location, and off we were.

Final tally: traditional, mystery, multi, letterbox, wherigo, earthcache, virtual, webcam, event, cito.

This was so long ago that lab caches were not a thing. Today 11 types would be reasonably easy since there are now plenty of lab caches that are not limited to some mega or giga available and lots more virtuals than then. As long as you can find a working webcam, just wait for a CITO in the same general area and go!

---

I'm not sure 'consistency' can be a factor with add-ons.  Each is unique in it's definition just like the badges.  For certain add-ons they will be extremely difficult to accomplish and a very coveted accomplishment.  For others, not so.  To be honest, this is normal. The difficult add-ons provide goals to shoot for similar to the badges.  The easier ones make it possible for everyone to accomplish and that is important to keep interest alive.  This Saturday, I have planned a day to grab over a dozen leap-day add-ons but I will have to wait for the next one to achieve those really difficult ones like the D/T or 366 day.

Equally important is to always have a goal that has not been attained.  What is the motivation if you have achieved everything?  This upgrade has provided everyone new challenges and goals which is awesome.

I had to give up my Diverse Cacher diamond level badge (first diamond I achieved) because I have a lab cache on the same day.  Eventually, I will buy a membership to Project-GC and get that diamond back.  So, until then I will have to get back out there and find 11 distinct types that do not include a lab cache.  To do that I will need a Mega or Giga event with a CITO and a Maze on the same day.  Not easily attainable for me.

---

I hear you Pinkunicorn, but you've hit the nub of my problem. Only 1 Webcam cache in the whole of NZ, and it's on the wrong island to me. I'm already hosting a CITO and an Event and the rest should be attainable with a bit of effort. But zero chance of getting 11 in a day when the day isn't determined by the date of a Mega.

---

When the Travelling Cacher leapday addon only requires two countries logged, I think sapphire level for this is quite reasonable. In fact, I think in general a leapday addon should be for achieving a bronze-level or gemstone-level achievement (as appropriate) for that badge.

---

TwigNZ (and others) : some of these badges are challenging and cannot be achieved in the country you live. It is not a case of zero chance to get the badge, it is a great reason to holiday to another country. 12 in a day should be pretty easy in Seattle in August.

Please do not downgrade badges just because they are difficult to get for people in some countries

---

12+ in a day is a challenge but reasonably achievable with some effort. But getting 11 specifically on Feb 29th is a heck of an effort, and that's what this post is about. I don't want to dumb down every add-on, but if people don't think it can be achieved, or else think the reward doesn't justify the effort, then they won't bother.

Answer 1

The original idea with Addons was that they were supposed to be something you could work on after you had your Diamond. It was a concept aiming to please those who has been geocaching a lot, for a long time. The design was even to require a Diamond to show them.

When we started detailing it out more and more we figured that some Addons will be fairly easy and others more or less impossible. The original idea was definitely aiming more for impossible than easy, therefore we feel that the mentioned Addon actually has the level of difficulty we anticipated.

It's definitely not meant that everyone should get every Addon, and even more so not within a year or two.

Personally I (and the group I geocached with) aimed for > 100 finds last Leap day, and we also made sure to log D5, T5, some different sizes and types (though not all).

This Leap day I (and a similar group) will aim for full D/T, and add a few more types and sizes (Large, CITO, Virtual, Challenge).

Next Leap day in four years will probably either be 400+ finds, or 11 types. The Leap day after that, eight years from now, will be the other. If nothing has changed by then. This is the way the Addons are meant. Years of planning.

I don't expect that too many have logged 150 T5 Geocaches with the Climbing attribute either for example. It's also something that is meant to take years for most.

And I know I am repeating myself here, but the idea with the Addons was/is to have something after the Diamond has been reached. Maybe even after the loops on that Diamond have been capped. Though some Addons turned out to be quite easy. You can see them as teasers to the rest. To conclude, they are meant to be piss-hard.

Comments

Exactly as I suspected but now it's confirmed.  Thank you for that.  Suggest publishing this reasoning in the wiki.

---

Great explanation, and perfectly reasonable. I do have Diamond level for Diverse Cacher so was looking at the add-on as something to get to enhance it.
I guess I'm just a little confused as to why so many of the new add-ons are so easily achieved then, and yet this one so difficult. Quite a gulf of degrees of difficulty. Just an observation of course.

---

Can I ask how many people have achieved the leap day addon to the Diverse Cacher badge?

Edit to add: I'm planning to go for as many types as I can tomorrow. That number is 9 (plus lab cache). I have no way to get diamond level this leap year.

---

Haven't checked. If I remember tomorrow I can ask the database. Meanwhile you have some statistics on Wiki, based on a small non-random subset of users.
https://project-gc.com/w/Badge_Statistics

---

Sumbloke: If everything goes as planned I should be able to get 10 different types tomorrow, which would have been a Diamond by the old reckoning but not by the changed requirements. I'd be curious to know that stat too, both before and after tomorrow to see how many people were able to actually get it tomorrow.

---

According to that wiki, 6 cachers from the sample have achieved it, putting it as the lowest achieved leapday addon. And by my quick look, Diverse Cacher and Travelling Cacher seem to be the only ones requiring more than one find on 29/2 for that addon...

---

There are also possible Leapday addons that none have received in that list. Sadly the list doesn't show which are possible and which aren't. Maybe it will in the future, but it wasn't easy enough for this iteration.

---

Ah, good point. There are eight badges with unachieved leapday addons (All-Around, Attribute, Busy, GPS Maze, Giga, High/Low Altitude, Matrix). And I think some of those should be reviewed as well (particularly Busy and All-Around).

---

@sumbloke There seems to be 23 geocachers who have exactly 11 cache types logged on leap day. Not a single one with 12. This data does not include labcaches. Since labcache data is stored in other tables, it would increase the complexity a lot. There weren't may labcaches around four years ago though.

But next week (or month to give people some time to log online), it's likely that there will be hundreds of geocachers, at least if including labcaches.


Regarding reviewing the addons. The point of the addons is that they should be hard, they should primarily be something to work on after Diamond, maybe even after Diamond is capped. Some addons are easier though.

I personally will try to get at least Attribute and Busy the coming leap years. D/T matrix I will fix this year.

I would love to do All Around, but due to my geographical location it's almost impossible, it's likely that I would have to log geocaches in four countries for that. I happen to know that I have already logged all four available geocaches in Sweden for one sector for example.

My point is that the addons you list, actually are as hard as they are supposed to be. If anything, it's the other ones that are too easy.

Answer 2

Well I had a ball yesterday. I managed to achieve 17 new add ons relating to Feb 29th. Some of them were a little more difficult than others, but overall they were pretty easy.

I even managed to find 10 different cache type in a day, which is realistically as near as dammit pretty much the max anyone can get here in NZ on any given Feb 29th unless you find yourself in Chch and haven't previously logged the one and only webcam in New Zealand.

So I'll miss out on getting the add-on for the Diverse Cacher, which is a shame considering the I went to a lot more effort to get 10 types in a day than I did to get any of the other 17 add-ons, but c'est la vie.

In spite of that, I like the new add-ons and will still keep plugging away at them.

Good work guys