FTF on events

Question

Hey all,

I know that FTF is not a 'thing' for Groundspeak, but is very much a hotly contested thing in my region of New Zealand, and I'm sure would be in other places too.

However, there's 1 aspect which really irritates me, and that's people being able to claim FTF on events, including CITO. I'm not talking about some kind of raffle for the right to claim a FTF (although I still think that's wrong) but rather that people can and do regularly claim a FTF on an event when events are not 'found' but 'attended'.

I also know that this topic has been broached before, but that was 3 years ago and I'm interested in seeing if there's a shift in opinion from the decision makers at PGC?

Yes, I'm aware that omitting any 'attended' logs from the FTF list will upset a small number of people, but i would hazard a guess that it would greatly please an awful lot more.

What do people think? Would you be interested in a more level playing field when it come to seeing how you're doing compared to your peers?

Cheers.

Answer 1

I have always said this and in fact when I held an event in NZ I noted it happened with mine ( though not obvious as the FTF claimant hid the comment as a link - which if you are doing it that way does make me think they know it is not right)

You don't FIND an event, you ATTEND

So how is a FTF on an event ever a thing.

And as for raffling for the chance to log FTF for an event is the most stupid idea I ever heard - the person turning up half an hour at the end of a 2 hour event gets the chance to be able to log FTF makes a mockery of the FTF stats - yes, it is only on this site that these stats are recognized but anyone putting FTF in their log will know that

Comments

Agreed on all counts.

I host a lot of events, and have taken to making a comment on the event page that any claim of a FTF on my event will not be tolerated, as events are attended (not found).

The 'raffling' of FTFs on some events is so wrong. I enter those raffles just so I can then make a point of not claiming the FTF should I ever win.

Answer 2

Don't see the point, cheaters gonna cheat anyway. If you remove attended logs they'll just start cheating on real caches instead. Just add a cache type filter to your search and view the stats without events if that's what you want to see, it's easy and requires zero changes.

Comments

Thanks for your consideration. The difference is that they don't think they are cheating by claiming FTFs on events. So anyone who is currently doing it may be doing so because they are ignorant, rather than a cheat. This would remove that ambiguity. Anyone else cheating by claiming a FTF on a cache they weren't FTF (and yes, I do know at least one of these) will exist anyway.

So there is a point to this regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

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I have the habit to link people to the page of geocaching.com when they do things wrong, especially with low number of found. By exemple by warning them if the log a 'found' when 'viewing' a cache on a tree, i warn them to remove the log if they don't change to a note. Same as a wrong FTF. And yes I read every log even i have read already 250k of it ;-)

Answer 3

The beauty of geocaching lies in its diversity. Some people play for points, some for difficulty, others for statistics and "coloring the map". Some people show up to a CITO event for five minutes and "claim" an "attended", while others won’t log "attended" unless they get their hands dirty. We keep two FTF lists: one for "pure" FTFs, and the other includes event FTFs as well. And we don’t count every event FTF there either. The first event FTF we encountered was awarded to the person who could remember the most decimal places of pi on Pi Day. Now that’s something worthy of a reward! "Giving" an FTF to everyone who brings a trackable item to an event dedicated to trackables? That’s where it comes down to personal conscience.

Comments

I'm sorry - but how does any of that entitle anyone to claim FTF at an event
Apart from the simple fact that you don't 'find' an event, you 'attend' it so no one can claim a find let alone a FTF.
But the complete farce of being able to log a FTF because you brought a trackable or because you remember more numbers that someone else or you drew the winning number out of a hat makes a complete mockery of the FTF stats

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Technically and from a purist standpoint, there can't be FTFs on events, because an event can't be "found". Yes. On that level there's nothing to disagree with, and there's no way to argue against it.

My response isn't dealing with the factual side of things. My reaction is trying to highlight that, as Goethe said, "theory is gray, but the tree of life is green."

It reminded me of how language evolves. Swear words become common phrases, ordinary words become insults; meanings shift depending on how it's used. We can study that process, but we can't stop it.

So if people felt the need to hand out some kind of “reward” at events, and they found FTF as the only working solution within the GC and project-gc systems, then yes — we can critique it, we can say it’s a misunderstanding, misuse, or devaluation. But that’s about all we can do. And it leads nowhere.

Just example of how I deal with it: If I hike up a mountain that also has a chairlift, I won’t compare myself to those who rode up in Sunday clothes — I’ll compare myself to the ones who hiked with me for half a day. I may think the others missed a great experience, and that the view can’t possibly feel and “taste” as good if you just paid to ride up. But that doesn’t mean no chairlift should exist anywhere.

In the end, the statistics will still show what percentage of someone’s FTFs were from events — and if I see one person with 2% of their 100 FTFs from events, and another with 95% of their 100 FTFs from events, I’ll just ... know.